The more the church looks like the world, the less a part of it I want to be.
Are we following Jesus or are we following the world?
Jesus did the will of his Father. He did not worry about the popular ideas of the time. And he changed the world like no one else before or after him has ever done.
My prayer is for us as a church to really and truly desire our Heavenly Father’s will above our own; To understand how loving and right and good His ways are no matter how uncool or unpopular they may seem in this day and age.
God IS love and God loves us.
His ways are sometimes difficult to understand… But they are always right and for our lasting good.
Moving with the times will be detrimental to the church in the long run even if it appears to be a good idea now… Just like the apple in the garden of eden… If we’re asking ourselves the question “Did God really say not to do that…?” It’s likely that he did and we are only fooling ourselves when we try to make up answers that aren’t really there. It’s a slippery slide downhill from here.
My other thought has been that if we have prayed for God’s will about this every other time we have voted on this topic, why are we still pursuing this? I once pushed God for something I desperatly wanted. His first and second ‘No’ fell on deaf ears… I learned the hard way when I got what I thought I wanted only to be completely burned by it.
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Comments 8
I believe [supported by Article II of our Constitution ] that the church’s doctrine must be grounded in the scriptures and guided by the Confessions, all arguments either to maintain the teaching of the Church or to change it, need to work within the LCA’s own obligation to remain true to the Constitution and particularly the un-alterable Articles.
Based on this I believe that Women’s Ordination (WO) is an erroneous attempt to deviate from the Word of God. As long as a woman cannot be a husband, she cannot be an Overseer or a Deacon in the Lutheran Church, c.f. 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1.
We should not be following the world which is my concern if we ordain women in our church. Some churches have women ministers, but some such as the Uniting and Anglicans go further. I don’t believe this is God’s will. If we are have a pick and choose attitude to interpreting the bible, as man’s speculation is, including higher scholarship etc, we run the risk of sliding into apostasy and heresy. None of us are wiser than God. I agree entirely with this post
I agree, though had to smile at the reference to an apple in the Garden of Eden. I always like to think of a delicious mango! I was wondering why we had to vote again on an agreement made in 1966. What has changed since then? Has God changed? Has the bible? Has our liturgy? Has the catechism? What has changed massively is culture – popular acceptance of abortion, homosexuality, same-sex marriage, women’s rights. Where will it all end? Of course, women are just as intelligent as men (sometimes moreso) and can capably handle any career in medicine, commerce, or whatever, and should be allowed to make the most of their God-given talent. However, in matters theological, it’s pretty clear that our Creator made men and women physically AND emotionally different – for good reason. He wants men to be lovingly obedient to Him by taking on the role of ‘head’ in all matters pertaining to His word, especially preaching, and women to be lovingly obedient to Him by accepting the role given to men. He made us. He knows what He’s doing. Let’s trust Him. Voting on Women’s Ordination, whatever the result, will mean devastation to many. Is it worth the risk? Or perhaps God will let us eat of the fruit of our disobedience.
Joanna, I was interested in your original post
“Are we following Jesus or are we following the world?
Jesus did the will of his Father. He did not worry about the popular ideas of the time. And he changed the world like no one else before or after him has ever done.”
It’s interesting to me that Jesus saved his most severe barbs not for “the world”, but for the religious people who had perverted God’s will by their own ideas and preconceptions. They had turned relationship with God into a list of do’s and don’ts, so that the dominant feature of religious people in Jesus’ time was fear. Jesus is far more interested in us being in a loving relationship with him than he is in us living lives motivated by fear.
t is also interesting to me that things changed in response to changing culture even in the New Testament. Gentiles were received into the Kingdom, which led to conflict over the keeping of Jewish Laws (which incidentally Jesus and his followers kept – even if not to the satisfaction of his critics). The upshot was that Gentile followers of Jesus did not have the burden of all the Jewish laws. Is that bending to culture? Not in Paul’s view – rather it was a matter of the Law not getting in the way of the Gospel.
Just a few questions to get us thinking,
When did God ever bow his own head and prostrate himself to any “culture of the world, new or old”?
When did God ask anybody for the best way to proceed?
Please give me a Biblical example…
Rev. Chris Raatz
Grampians Parish
Hi Rob, I think everyone would agree with you that “Jesus is far more interested in us being in a loving relationship with him than he is in us living lives motivated by fear”. My concern is that you could seem to be implying that Joanna, and others who share her concerns, are more motivated by fear than love – more law than gospel. I think “fear” is an emotion that could be attributed to some people who are in favour of women pastors, as well as to those who are not in favour. I hope and pray that “where love comes to life” is more than just a nice tagline this year – and for many years to come. Blessings in Christ! David
Thank you David – Yes this is an emotion laden issue that the family of the LCA has to deal with, and fear is one of those emotions felt by many. I am sorry that I gave the impression of being accusatory toward Joanna or others in my remarks. They were intended as a reflection of Jesus’ words to the Pharisees, Teachers of the Law etc. Certainly, I see it as important for my spiritual health to identify the spirit of the Pharisee in my own heart. My intent was not to be “Pharisaical about Pharisees” and accuse others of Pharisaical motivation; apologies if that is how it has been received.
Thank you for your graciousness Rob. I’m sure there are plenty of logs I should take out of my own eyes before I point out a possible/potential speck in one of my brother’s. May God guide us in the peace of Christ! God bless!