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Bone of contention

I am new to OWL
Here is how I see it.
There is a bone of contention.
On the one side is a dog growling, grunting and determined wanting to grab the bone, run away and bury it, never to find it again!
The other side has a dog of gentleness, hunger and equal determination who does grab the bone, runs with it and Yes, eats it and grows stronger.
With respect to both ‘dogs’, we live in a fast moving fast changing world.
Reforms happen. Christ was the greatest reformer of all time. Martin Luther agonized over making reforms – but he did it.
To move into the 22nd Century we need to build, grow and provide a ‘fertile garden’ for the next generation to bud and flower.
We need to re-form.
With the wisdom and acceptance of the elders, we can be a church that grows with the welcoming of women into the pulpit.


Comments 8

  • . . . . and where does the Word of God feature in this line of argument? Can you help me understand that side of it?

    1. I disagree with Kay Herring

      On one side are those who are loyal to our doctrine, and read Article II of our Constitution as it stands e.g. We believe teach and confess that the Prophetic and Apostolic Books of the Old and the New Testament are the only rule and norm for all matters of faith, doctrine and life. C.f. The Book of Concord, Formula of Concord.
      I doubt that the other side even knows our doctrine on the infallibility and inerrancy of the Word of God, or for that matter any other Lutheran doctrine based on the Word of God.

      Holy Scriptures teach us in the Pastoral letters that the overseer of a community of saints is to be a Husband of one Wife, not a Husband of a Wife, nor a Wife of a Husband. C.f. 1 Timothy 3 & Titus 1.

      Many theories and concepts have been proposed but the Word of God stands. All clergy have made their vows, including allegiance to our Constitution including Article II a & b, during their Ordination and at their respective installations. We must call here on our Clergy to remain true to their vows and oppose any deviation from their promises and the teaching of the Lutheran Church.

      This may be hard to understand for many in the pews, but the Lutheran interpretation of the Christian faith is based upon the Word of God. These teachings are purely Lutheran, peoples’ minds may change, but the Word of God does not, because it cannot.

      In HIS love and service

      Christian P.J. Bahnerth

      1. Yes God’s Word is inspired and inerrant. We confess that as a church and rightly so. So how then can some of us hold different views about certain scriptural passages? While the Word is inspired and true, our translation of it, our understanding of its meaning, our knowledge of the issue it was addressing… these things are open for discussion, or should be.

        Just a simple example please. If we hold that women are to be silent in the church and not teach, then how can we also ignore Paul’s command for women to attend church with heads covered, minus gold ear rings and in plain clothing?

        Why do we have steps leading up to our altars when Leviticus plainly prohibits them?

        Why does Paul go in in his next verse in the Timothy text to say that women are to be saved by child bearing? Does a woman who can’t have children therefore not get into heaven?

        Or are you picking and choosing which “laws’ and ‘truths for all time” to conform to?

        I am not trying to rubbish your quite valid reading of scriptures, I am simply trying to say that a simple adherence to what our “English” translations of the scriptures can quickly place us in a quandary as to what to do.

        Regards, Erik

    2. The Word of God is the “bone” my friend. Or rather a small bone relating to the texts we think are important.

    3. Perhaps some are forgetting that in spiritual matters, it is not what we think, but what our Creator God says. He made us, and sent Jesus to shed His blood for our salvation. No matter how hard we try to improve the church, the message of the bible will stand forever, unchanged. God wants us to realize that His ways are not our ways. His Spirit will lead us, as it inspired St. Paul to write what he did. I don’t understand why no-one seems to mention God’s authority, God’s omniscience, the respect and devotion He deserves. All we hear about is ‘well, this is what I think…’ or ‘I’ve heard a sermon preached by a woman and it was great’ etc. That’s not the point. Have we forgotten our sinful condition? Perhaps we had better start remembering who God is or He may allow us to feed on the fruits of our disobedience. (1 Samuel 8:7)

      1. Thank you Gloria, what a breath of fresh air you are!

    4. With respect for Wallys, Barney and Gloria’s reply to my observation — not an argument.

      As a Sunday Pew person, weekly, daily enjoying my walk with Christ and the joys and challenges that come my way- this is my view.

      The Bible (The Word) teaches us through the ages with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It continues to teach us today. Quite obviously different people interpret and are guided in different ways.
      The Word (Christ) was with God and the Word became Flesh. Christ’s words are the Gospel by which we try to live. We are required to balance the Gospel, the words of Christ and its many components with everyday life. Not 2000 yrs ago but in the NOW, the current time of 2015

      In an emergency, in the absence of a Pastor, any person can baptise a child ( The Lutheran Hymn Book has an order of service for such times)
      An Emergency is existing in the LCA a today. Ask the Bishops – how many Pastors today are stretched to the limit, under extreme pressure resulting in health issues, burn out, fatigue!

      The Harvest is great, the Reapers are few.
      Those women who have the “calling” to be Gods chosen servants can strengthen, sustain and help carry forward the Lutheran Church of Australia.

      Ask the next Generation what they think.
      We will NOT be here in a few years to sustain the LCA

      1. The LCA will only survive by God’s grace as you know.Our Almighty Creator(the Potter) has, as is His prerogative, created us(the pots), with different characteristics and roles.This has nothing to do with our value- we are co-equal! In his word , he has given us a blueprint for orderly and effective living.We need just trust and obey Our Lord, even when it doesn’t seem to mesh with the world’s way of doing things!His truth doesn’t change, neither do the wiles of our era, because unlike us ,He is not bound by time and therefore not seduced by “modern” trends! Ordination of Women issue, is like the Pot, telling the Potter what it wants to be! Proverbs 3: 5,6+7. Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding. in all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. The fact that we’re ALL already part of the priesthood of all believers (1Peter 2:9) is exciting! We can all “minister” in various areas of our lives. We’re already ALL called to do so in whatever career title we are under i.e. wife, nurse, farmer, policeman etc. We should ALL be motivated, to tell the good news of Jesus, and not worry about who will wear the gown! Otherwise ,to me, its looking more like some sort of Power game , instead of obedience in servanthood.

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